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TheDgtl • View topic - At a loss for words

At a loss for words

Discuss anything Bukkit related
Jeyge
 
Posts: 112
Joined: October 28th, 2011, 11:24 pm

At a loss for words

Postby Jeyge » February 23rd, 2012, 7:33 pm

As some of you know, I only troll the Bukkit forums looking for funny posts and boy did one come up. Now just a little background from someone who has way too much time on his hands and once upon a time would spend most of the day reading those forums and even responding to a lot of the questions. Also from someone who has been a bit harsh at the management of those forums. Here is a very simple list of how the old mods/admins would handle things.

1) If you break the rules, delete the post.
2) If we don't like what you posted, delete the post.
3) If you didn't listen to us, delete the post.
4) If it is 5:55 am or pm on a day of the week that ends with day, delete the post.
5) If you ask us for something, delete the post.

Now you can replace "delete the post" with "move the post to the dev only section" if you want but the result is pretty much the same. They didn't moderate using true sense of the word. They used a sledge hammer approach to their moderation.

Now on to the fun. As you have probably seen, the whole adfly thing has come back. I personally don't care because I run an ad blocker so if there is only an adfly link, they still won't receive anything from me but I would rather not have to click on something that has ads. But here are the links to their arguments:



As for why I find it funny, I see the first link as this:

(Kid) Why can't I do blah? (Blah is a technical term for whatever analogy you want to use)
(Adult) Because it isn't allowed.
(Kid) But why?
(Adult) Because it was causing problems.
(Kid) I don't like your answer and I want someone else to answer.
(Adult2) But they said it wasn't allowed. Isn't that good enough?
(Kid) Point me to where they said it or it ain't true.
(Adult3) <posts link>
(Kid) That was a stupid post. I want to reopen the discussion and want someone to answer me about why.
(Person of authority) We don't allow it because it caused problems.
(Kid) But that isn't a good answer. What exactly did it do?
(Person of authority) It caused problems and people messaged the admins about it.
(Kid) Still not good enough.
(Owner of the forums) We just don't want to have the problems associated with supporting blah.
(Kid) Still not good enough. Show me proof that it caused problems.
(Owner of the forums) Show me proof that it doesn't cause problems and we will allow blah.
(Kid) Still not good enough. I shouldn't have to show you proof.
<silence for a while>
(Another poster) You say this has been a rule all along but you haven't every enforced it.
<post is moderated in the only way they seem to know how to>
(Person of authority) You aren't going to derail this absolutely pointless post with your drivel.

Now as to the rules above, they really have enforced the policy at least as far back as my 10 months goes. But instead of saying they don't allow the breaking of the rules, they would delete the post. I'm really hoping that Luke will see this and perhaps do a DB search for the number of times they deleted/moderated posts that were asking for money but in the end, it really doesn't matter. I mean, who do they want to hear from. Is it Gods booming voice saying that it isn't allowed the is needed for them to understand that it isn't allowed or supported. I would think the Evil one saying that they aren't going to support it until someone can prove it isn't bad would be enough.

Sorry for the long post, story and ruining the boards perfect 777 posts. :) (Yes, the smiley was inserted just because of what was said in those posts)

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Inscrutable
 
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Location: Fortress of Evil, Tasmania, Australia

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Inscrutable » February 23rd, 2012, 8:03 pm

I just noticed those threads myself. Quite a car-crash happening there.
IMHO, (bukkitmods) have *arbitrarily* enforced their "rules". Thus making them hypocrites.
Rather than seek consistency, they have allowed it to be swept under the rug (deletion).
It's hardly a surprise that it comes back to bite them.
I have seen dozens of threads asking/offering money for plugins, and hidden adfly links all over.

In reality, they should be seeking legal advice regarding their liability - and then POST IT,
along with the condisered ramifications. Anything less is just unprofessional guesswork.
(I would be amazed if they can't get free legal advice from one or more qualified members...)

[I was gonna post something on this subject already, you beat me to it XD]
Regulation Brass Ones, Guv'nor

DrBowe
 
Posts: 1
Joined: February 23rd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby DrBowe » February 23rd, 2012, 8:13 pm

I usually lurk here, because I always enjoy seeing two views of one particular subject that are complete polar opposites. But I suppose I can make one exception just to clarify a few things here:

1) It has always been in their ToS -- No one (with a brain) is denying that.
2) They have always enforced it on areas that blatantly stood out as cheap cash-whoring
3) They have -not- always enforced it in the Plugin Request area, hell, I'd argue that they never have. I said it in that thread, and I'll say it here, there was a huge change of face with very little explanation as to why.

I have no problem with their policy, but what I do have an issue with is the fact that they are shooting down any confusion with "We've always done this, shush!". If that were the case, these threads would not have popped up in the first place. If it's always been done, why would it catch people's attention now?

As for my own section of drama, I don't particularly enjoy having my post kicked under a rug (especially when the moderator implies that I'm some sort of babbling moron who has no idea what he's talking about). I don't like that being the last word in a thread. So needless to say, I was more than pissed off when my post regarding that issue was kindly 'cleaned up', so as to not 'derail the thread'.

Honestly, I could go on and on about the levels of crap displayed by both sides of that thread, but I've said too much on the issue already for today. Blood has been boiling over the actions of mbaxter, to say the least.

Also, I suppose this is an informal introduction to dgtl. Hello.

Jeyge
 
Posts: 112
Joined: October 28th, 2011, 11:24 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Jeyge » February 23rd, 2012, 9:09 pm


Drakia
Site Admin
 
Posts: 553
Joined: October 26th, 2011, 8:20 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Drakia » February 23rd, 2012, 9:28 pm

Hey DrBowe, didn't realize you read these forums, welcome!

As for the topic at hand, both sides are kind of acting childish (But hey, so do I!). Personally, I see no problems with offering cash for plugins/offering plugin coding for cash. There would be zero legal grounds to sue Bukkit if anything went south (It's not like Bukkit itself is the one mediating these offers, it is specific users. It's not like if I were to buy girlscout cookies outside a Wal-Mart, and then get ripped off, and try to sue Wal-Mart, it just doesn't work like that).

I'm still opposed to ad.fly links, as that website is _horrid_, so I'm not going to even get into that one :P

@Jeyge
"I do believe some of my posts stuck a nerve in the management of the Bukkit forums"
Pfft, nowhere near the nerve I struck ;)

Also I agree with you on their choice of staff, mbaxter is a fucking horrid moderator who uses the sledgehammer of deletion method WAY too often.'

[Edit]
Just read some more of mbaxter's posts in response to DrBowe, holy crap I want to smack that guy, there is no way in hell he should be a moderator.

Jeyge
 
Posts: 112
Joined: October 28th, 2011, 11:24 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Jeyge » February 23rd, 2012, 9:38 pm


Drakia
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Posts: 553
Joined: October 26th, 2011, 8:20 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Drakia » February 23rd, 2012, 9:46 pm


Drakia
Site Admin
 
Posts: 553
Joined: October 26th, 2011, 8:20 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Drakia » February 23rd, 2012, 10:01 pm

Haha, just saw this post from EvilSeph: http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/so-no- ... ost-981152
"but will also be clearly communicating each and every one of them amongst my staff"
My god, I don't think "communicate" means what EvilSeph thinks it means. How many times have we heard "We are going to communicate better" since the Bukkit project started? Oh wait, every time users bitch that they aren't communicating because they don't know how to!

Jeyge
 
Posts: 112
Joined: October 28th, 2011, 11:24 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Jeyge » February 24th, 2012, 12:55 am


Drakia
Site Admin
 
Posts: 553
Joined: October 26th, 2011, 8:20 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Drakia » February 24th, 2012, 3:48 pm

Post by EvilSeph: "If this discussion is unable to remain civil from this point on, I will have no choice but to get involved."
Oh shit, be careful guys. Remember what happened last time he got involved? A contributing member of the community (Read: me) got banned, and a troll who offered nothing to the community (Read: SwearWord) got promoted to moderator. The last thing we need is Afforess getting banned, and MrMan being promoted to mod ;)

Mr. Man
 
Posts: 42
Joined: October 29th, 2011, 5:00 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Mr. Man » February 24th, 2012, 4:32 pm

Too bad they banned me till 3/08, or I'd be in that thread as fast as flies on shit.

Mr. Man
 
Posts: 42
Joined: October 29th, 2011, 5:00 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Mr. Man » February 24th, 2012, 4:35 pm


Mr. Man
 
Posts: 42
Joined: October 29th, 2011, 5:00 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Mr. Man » February 24th, 2012, 4:38 pm


Jeyge
 
Posts: 112
Joined: October 28th, 2011, 11:24 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Jeyge » February 24th, 2012, 6:20 pm


Jeyge
 
Posts: 112
Joined: October 28th, 2011, 11:24 pm

Re: At a loss for words

Postby Jeyge » February 24th, 2012, 6:23 pm

@Mr. Man
If you are meaning joining the banned, well, I have no desire to help them out in this time of great need so I doubt that will actually happen. If you mean the Spout forums, I just started to read them this morning. They do like to have fun there. I'm really loving the [you] posts where everyone seems to get really angry at how someone called them out. :)

Drakia
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Re: At a loss for words

Postby Drakia » February 24th, 2012, 9:23 pm



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