BUKKIT IS DEAD

[Inscrutable]

Seriously. They just shot their own feet off, making a deal with Jeb.

Lookee: http://forums.spout.org/threads/spout-the-same-chapter.1495/

There is blood in the water.

[Jeyge]

That was quite the announcement this morning and has been fun reading about during the day. I really like the links to their private chats from IRC. Those were very informative.

[hatstand]

They banned me for re-posting those links

[Inscrutable]

More of the same, that's what we should expect.
More censorship of differing opinions and facts that don't gel with their new fairytale wedding.
They're trying to mischaracterise criticism as some kind of class-war between Bukkit and Spout.
Classic spin doctory. It's their appendages they have mutilated, their community they are debilitating.
Hardly a surprise that folk suggest alternatives, and debate the merits thereof.

More IRC records please, post them here where they cannot purge them (or you).
It's quite revealing seeing the internal machinations of their "moderation" system.

[hatstand]

This is the post I kept quoting:

Evilseph in #bukkit+: http://pastebin.com/jHxMiYt5

http://pastie.org/3258923
http://pastie.org/3258697
http://pastie.org/3258813
http://pastie.org/3258871
http://pastie.org/3093093

[Drakia]

Oh god reading that one at the end was painful: http://pastie.org/3093093
Damn EvilSeph, just want to say thanks for reading my forums, welcome, and seriously I hope you get fired

[Drakia]

More of the same, that's what we should expect.
More censorship of differing opinions and facts that don't gel with their new fairytale wedding.
They're trying to mischaracterise criticism as some kind of class-war between Bukkit and Spout.
Classic spin doctory. It's their appendages they have mutilated, their community they are debilitating.
Hardly a surprise that folk suggest alternatives, and debate the merits thereof.

More IRC records please, post them here where they cannot purge them (or you).
It's quite revealing seeing the internal machinations of their "moderation" system.

Oh EvilSeph, you claim I was the one bringing the Bukkit community down, but look at what you've done to it. It's only a matter of time before you are fired and forgotten, or at most remembered as a failure ^.^

[Inscrutable]

Fucking hell. I just read that last log.

I'm done being polite about this. What a manipulative, self-centred CHOAD.
Now I have some concrete reasons to loathe that hypocritical toady. With text to back it up.
Lurking in IRC, accusing people of dissenting (because of his own stark lack of reading comprehension)
and then he claims repeatedly that he was "just asking a question". Absolute BULLSHIT.

NeuroLinguistic Programming indeed. He is a sly, manipulative, self-absorbed, self-important shitrag.
It's about time to start countering his spin-doctoring, ladies and gentlemen.

Mojang have made a terrible choice employing this tool, and I wil do my best to express this to them
in any way I can find. He is a totally inappropriate choice for this project, a domineering, lying prick.

Let's make sure these IRC logs ara available to all the dweebs who proclaim the wonders
of the Bukkit staff. Let them see what lurks behind.

PS: Seph: get stuffed.

[Jeyge]

I found that last log to be very funny. And just a bit of real quick history as to why. I piss everyone I know off because I answer the question asked. I read what is written and respond to that. I'm not very creative so I don't see the alternate meanings to things people talk about and then completely miss the point. Then I read that log and I saw someone who has other voices going on in his head telling him that people are saying something they aren't. I even started to break it down to remove all of the extra chat which seemed to only be there to defuse things until I came down to the:

<+NinjaGrinch> I cannot like Bukkit's competition?
--snip--
<@EvilSeph> I never said that, please don't put words in my mouth
<+NinjaGrinch> I didn't. It was a question.

part and I knew someone had issues so I stopped and read the important parts to my girlfriend.

And this might just be a pet peeve but the word is fanboi not fanboy. I hate it when people misuse that term.

[Drakia]

Fucking hell. I just read that last log.

I'm done being polite about this. What a manipulative, self-centred CHOAD.
Now I have some concrete reasons to loathe that hypocritical toady. With text to back it up.
Lurking in IRC, accusing people of dissenting (because of his own stark lack of reading comprehension)
and then he claims repeatedly that he was "just asking a question". Absolute BULLSHIT.

NeuroLinguistic Programming indeed. He is a sly, manipulative, self-absorbed, self-important shitrag.
It's about time to start countering his spin-doctoring, ladies and gentlemen.

Mojang have made a terrible choice employing this tool, and I wil do my best to express this to them
in any way I can find. He is a totally inappropriate choice for this project, a domineering, lying prick.

Let's make sure these IRC logs ara available to all the dweebs who proclaim the wonders
of the Bukkit staff. Let them see what lurks behind.

PS: Seph: get stuffed.

I need to add a like feature just so I can like this post.

[Drakia]

I just sent this email to Notch, hopefully he gets it/reads it:

I would just like to email you and inform you that it is my opinion you have made a terrible mistake in hiring the Bukkit developers (Namely EvilSeph/Warren Loo) as part of the Minecraft team.
Warren has shown time and time again that he can not handle a community, has admitted that he "manipulates" people, and has done nothing but drive the Bukkit project into the ground (I would recommend reading some of the more recent posts on the Bukkit forums for back story on this, as well as posts at http://http://forums.spout.org/threads/ ... pter.1495/ and viewforum.php?f=9 ). Before you get too comfortable with your new employees, I would recommend you take a look at these IRC logs from their staff channel:
http://pastie.org/3258923
http://pastie.org/3258697
http://pastie.org/3258813
http://pastie.org/3258871
http://pastie.org/3093093

As you can see, especially in the last link, Warren not only manipulates his staff, but tries to use them to manipulate the communities perception of themselves. Honestly, right now I think of Mojang in a very good light, you are a very charitable organization, you do a lot of things for the right reason, but if you hire somebody as paranoid, sadistic and manipulative as Warren Loo you are just going to soil the image that you have spent so long building for your company.

If any more logs from the Bukkit staff channel come to light, I will be forwarding them on to you, but also keep an eye on the Spout forums as they will most likely be posted there first.

Thank you for your time,
Steven Scott

[Jeyge]

I forgot one thing. I really really really liked the part where he said that their forums could handle all of the users. Yeah, right. How many times was it down? I can remember multiple times that it was down for an extended period of time. And did all of that pre-planning include the normal 30+ minute downtime scheduled for prime time in the US? And how much planning did they do in the first place? They didn't and still don't even run the forums.

[Inscrutable]

Drake - I am old fashioned. I am going to use paper, but I will be expressing similar sentiments.
Sadism isn't one of the charges I level at him. It has more to do with a lack of competence in
handling internal politics. Any percieved reasons for his unreasonable behaviour are secondary
to the actual evidence of his stupid behaviour on IRC and the Bukkit Forums.
Whether it is of any concern to Mojang is anyone's guess. They are a business, but an odd one.

I must admit, I'm glad someone liked my rant above. But it's still depressing, because I meant it.

[Darkone003]

Well then.. This is an interesting turn of events, I have to say I'm not surprised the Bukkit team jumped ship at the first available chance, I mean would you stay with the sinking ship? But I am immensely surprised Mojang would hire them, you would think they would know better.. But then again if Mojang puts a muzzle on EvilSeph it might not be all bad, either way I was planning on heading to Spout..

[Drakia]

Honestly, it looks like EvilSeph doesn't care about the community at all, he was using Bukkit as a means to clean up his public image, which is why he was so controlling of his staff, deleted posts that were critical of him and his methods, and in general didn't communicate for crap with the community.
The reason I started disliking how Bukkit was run is because EvilSeph took what should have been a community based project, and turned it into a revenue stream for himself. Bukkit would be NOTHING without the community, and yet EvilSeph is the one reaping the reward, and taking credit. Hell, 90% of their "thought out" system was scrapped and replaced with implementations from other developers.
EvilSeph is pathetic, to say the least...

[Hiramas]

So, I have to ask: What is the future? The Minecraft API? Spout?
(Personally, I have a LOT of hopes for Spout. Even had when it was called bukkitcontrib)
As much as I love notch's work and even more Jeb's since he took over (he IS the better long term dev, I think), I fear that the MAPI will suffer from the same flaws MC has everywhere. It works and is relatively easy to use, but at the same time it is restrictive and closed source.
So, to which of the promised lands will you lead us, Drakia?

[Drakia]

Personally I'm looking forward to Spout. If we've learned anything from Bukkit it's that the core devs don't know their shit, and most of the API was implemented by outside sources (Pull requests. EvilSeph & Co claim to have "planned" everything, and yet for some reason most of their "planned" systems have been re-written/re-implemented by members outside of their top 4 devs).
If you ask me, the MCAPI is going to be pure crap (Restricted, API changes every 2 weeks, slow, etc), or EvilSeph & Co are going to get fired once Mojang realizes they are full of shit.

[MsInscrutable]

To be honest, I really don't want to see the "Bukkit Four" fuck up Minecraft, but they took the money, now they have to show a considerably larger audience that they can do the job.

If they thought that the flamewars of freeware development were a trifle unpleasant, the heat generated in the paid employment for game development arena will probably leave them nothing but four pairs of smoking boots...

I also have a dread fear that Seph's Ego may not fit into Sweden, let alone Mojang's office space.

[ZeroPoke]

I also have a dread fear that Seph's Ego may not fit into Sweden, let alone Mojang's office space.

That might be a good thing. If they have to work locally, he couldnt then XD

[Inscrutable]

NECROPOST! Two and a half years later .... KABOOM. All the Bukkit staff have resigned, Wesley Wolfe's DMCA has taken down Bukkit, Spigot and Cauldron, and Mojang don't have any real motivation to help fix the disaster they helped precipitate.
I won't summarise, there's a lot to be found elsewhere (spigot forum is particularly good).
Bukkit looks to be *really* dead this time.
The upshot, however, is far more interesting: it seems to have driven everyone who cares - devs, bukkit staff, forge team and modders, and server owners - to get together and build a replacement. They want to call it Sponge, and it already has a stub website (spongepowered.org). It would be interesting to get in on the ground level. Anyone who still reads here interested? Visit the site, it links to their google design doc. Then head to #sponge on espernet, it's bustling.
Time will tell if this sticks, but it's a very promising start to a new and improved API and MC server wrapper.
Oh, and we still love ya Drakia, even if MC gives you PTSD. Stargate *still* works